I can only totally undersign what you are saying. One can say that this is like a guy filming TV spots and not watching TV or see the effects on people. But the sad fact is, that they then wake up only to see that is worse. Cos with social media and other application driven media platforms you really miss a lot if your are not interacting with it.
But, hang on, I would really be convinced in the opposite. Any creative directors building digital strategies and using web apps here?

Probably that happens because even human relations are considered just as money making machines. Who cares about driving licences if you just need to sell cars? ;-)
Being a “mature guy”, I miss my university times: BBS, IRC and just ASCII characters… That was pure fun and no strategist was needed :-)

You are probably right about relations, but what I hate the most in some people that do creative and strategic planing or advertising in all is that they think that they are soooo smart. and you can not base a relation with other people by having this kind of mindset. Being advertising for partying :-)

If they don’t use social media networks as “tools” of interaction..it doesn’t mean they are not observing it.
Lots can be learned while observing…………………..

first question to me is to what extent those stories represent reality? I beleve that they do to a certain level, of course, because agencies are trying to embrace those strategies and digital fields without investing in it, meaning not to employ people with skills. On the other hand I don't believe that beeing a active community member qualifies anybody to make such strategies. we have to know that at the moment there are not enough people on the market who would know the "old" (marketing, advertising) and the "new" at the same time. Those facts also explain why doing "marketing" on Facebook became so popular - because everybody thinks that knows everything needed. but in fact it is just visible and feasible, at least for the time being.
If such stories arise it also means that clients are not happy with those strategies.
On the other hand: do you think that you have to be alcoholic to make an ad for the beer:)?

... let's say we are active internet users on all possible levels, so we have loooots of experience. and let's say that we also have the "old" marketing/advertising knowledge.
can we truly say that we're gonna make a great strategy? hmmm ... i would say that we can never be sure if our strategy is gonna reach its goals. why is that, if we have so much knowledge and experience?
because one very important element of a good strategy is "the element of surprise" or "let's try something new and different" element which comes out of our mindset and imagination. with that element in our strategy we can never be sure of the outcome. there's always enthusiasm, believing that everything's gonna go as planned and adrenalin, knowing that we're not a futurist...
if i go back to original post from Anej ... yes, you can be a driving instructor even if you cannot drive, but you must have a strategic mindset (directing you driver-to-be to roads with no or very little obstacles, so you have a good chance for reaching desired destination with as little damage as possible) and guts (just to sit in the car).
;)

@Nuttyprof brands are of course driven by people. People that run them and people that consume their products. Those people connect eventually connect on some point. The Web as a platform, respectively, offers a unique value proposition to both parties. Brands have now more than ever a chance to *scale* the caring for their customers. WIth caring I mean that the actually care what their people think, want, what are their issues. And scaling means that you have a chance to interact with a lot more people than you could before all the web2.0 stuff. People on the other hand have a chance to run a conversation, to rise their voice, to influence the brands with a minimum effort. Going among these people and show them that you care for them, e.g. that you're prepared for example tailor your service to them or solve their problems creates strong relations. Those relations are the leverage to pursue brand's goals. Do well what you do, care for it, love it, even and the money will follow. And I miss IRC too=)

@iDrum being (or thinking) over-smart usually results in some kind of people's revolt - whenever they get a feeling that you underestimate them, that you're dishonest you lost your game

@zbrchka maybe you're right, but the analogy I see here is like studying math for an exam - it's like you're too lazy to solve the tasks yourself and you just rely on the solved ones (books, lectures). Then you memorise the processes and ok, let's say you kinda understand what's the game. Then you come to an exam and the tasks in the exam are slightly different than they were in the lectures (data format or conept is different,...). What happens? If you didn't really get the logic behind the tasks, you usually froze. You just didn't have the information how to solve the task which you'd have gotten it if you went solving the tasks by yourself in the studying part. The same is with the web. You can observe, but you really get it when you use it. And if you just observe you cannot imagine all the possible, creative ways of utilizing the web and you stay just with the precedens.

@Zoran Trojar some google guy said: "Social media is like teen sex. Everybody wants to do it, but nobody knows how." The issue here is that the web is very accessible. Everyone that has 5 mins of spare time can be a smart ass about it. To succeed you have to get the product and the tools with which you're marketing/selling it. Sure, an enormous skillset is required, but since agencies live by selling their skillset, what options do you have? And you don't have to be an alcoholic to make an ad for beer, but I really loved what Mel Gibson did in What women want=)

@Katja Klepec since you're dealing with people and their human nature here and consequently the probability that a strategy you developed would or would not succeed you always have to be ready to fuck it up=) So with the latter example you suggest that you have to hope that you cause as little damage as possible to the brand you're working for?=)

hahahaha :) anej, don't twist my words around ... if you really didn't get my point, let me know and i'll try and explain it more precisely.

Uf, I hate multilevel answers :-) You lose focus... Anyway, I totally agree on learning and then implementing. But this is something that is hard to explain to someone that does not want to hear and thinks that he knows all the anwsers. That was (or tried to be my point)
Anyway, the problem is that there a different points and views about it (as it can be proven from this conversation) and most of them are truthful. This means that anybody who does real conversation (being online or offline) walks on a thin line, that is why it is sooooo hard.
But, not impossible :-)

@Katja: I'm just teasing cuz you left so much space open. Feel free to leave me speechless ;)
@iDrum: when you get your comments text parser in order also multilevel answers will be more friendly to read=) But what's the catch here - to extend my scaling the caring point - I can reply to all of you as I care (appreciate even) for your comments on my post and I use very little time and effort (comparing to other traditional comms methods).